The unintended results of the Self-Esteem Movement are: Apathy/Passivity, Desensitisation and Dependence.
How are you seeing the impact of the Self-Esteem Movement expressed in the students you are engaging with?
The unintended results of the Self-Esteem Movement are: Apathy/Passivity, Desensitisation and Dependence.
How are you seeing the impact of the Self-Esteem Movement expressed in the students you are engaging with?
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I have viewed this session with interest but I am not entirely comfortable with the statement that ‘follow your passion’ drives a person into a fixed mindset. People are born with capabilities they are naturally drawn to. That does not mean there are no obstacles to overcome but nourishing that passion is something that should not be ignored.
I find that many of the students that I teach need to be constantly told/reassured to complete tasks as there is no self direction and if not prompted in a positive they just throw in the hat. We need to be showing our students that internal validation and making mistakes are as important as recieving praise and that working hard and achieveing for ones own goals is as important as making others happy.
I find that a lot of students are afraid to try unless they are absolutely sure of their answers before engaging in discussion or the content of the lesson. I also have students who feign disenterest as a way of avoiding ‘failure’. They all measure themselves against each other and quickly identify the ‘clever’ ones and generally leave them to answer or provide input and then just agree. Telling the students that ‘failure is good’ doesn’t really resonate, not when they have never ‘failed’ before.
Yes jan, this 100% accurate! In alot of respects many of assessments that once were a graded system are now pass/fail and it seems to be very hard to fail these days!
Many years ago, I taught small children. It was very fashionable at the time to promote self-esteem. years later, I’m teaching in another era and I see the consequences of prized, protected and special students.
Yes Helen, so did I. Now Im teaching the adult versions of them. The difficulty these students experience especially with common sense, attention to detail and motivation is crazy.
Interesting differences between the fixed mind set and the growth mind set. I can relate this to my teaching practices and identify which students fit where?
Teaching learners in the VET area is very challenging.
The young learners are easily distracted and very hard to keep on track.
They constantly wait to be given the answers rather than thinking about it themselves.
The older learners may not be so confidant in themselves but do not need motivation.
I agree with your comment in regards to older learners
True Mark. The older learners are still hesitant but for different reasons. They are not shy in engaging in discussion and trying out ideas. The younger ones like to leave it to somebody else for fear of being ‘wrong’.
That is my observation also. I do find it frustrating that “using correct grammar” is considered old-fashioned. Learning how to do this correctly requires tenacity. In many instances, younger people miss out on the opportunity to develop tenacity.
I teach ESOL to adults, and many of the older students lack confidence and need a lot of reassurance, but ultimately take responsibility for their learning. To generalise, many of the younger ones want things to be easier and enjoy a much faster pace of learning. They get easily bored if we linger too long on one topic.
The students I engage with generally do not have much confidence in their work as they place so little effort in their submissions and are very needy in guidance and they easily give up. There isn’t much care given to the feedback provided to improve their work and therefore, they do not accomplish what they set out to do in the first place – learn and acquire a qualification one would think. Perhaps it also linked to their self-image when their first attempt is not good enough and they might feel that I cannot let others see/ know this so… Read more »
Trying to come left field and showing them that you care as well as have the expertise and the technical know-how to help them often makes a difference to their judgement of you, the teacher.
It varies. I teach VET so generation, culture and previous education play a big part. However, I have noticed comparing older to younger students that the younger students are more easily distracted and less self motivated compared to older students. They want the the teacher to give them answers rather than thinking about it themselves first. Older students can lack confidence but have greater motivation.
I too teach VET and fully agree with your statement,
The increase in online bullying could be partly attributed to the desensitisation of children growing up during the self-esteem movement. Boosting their own flagging confidence through pulling down others seems to be a common and cruel practice that causes long-term damage to students who do not always have the resilience to effectively deal with it.
I agree – but this also might be to do with not being face to face with someone while doing the bullying. It is easier to be desensitised when looking at a screen and not seeing the impact immediately.
The students I work with often do not have confidence in their own ability or judgement – needing guidance or direction before trying the task/activity themselves first.
I have had issues with younger students where I constantly need to encourage them to attempt and complete tasks. They show no initiative and do not take responsibility for their own learning, constantly needing encouragement. I encourage my students to undertake self-reflection after completing tasks.
The evidence of the self esteem movement is shown by students who seemingly cannot think beyond the basic instructions or perhaps are too lazy/cautious/unmotivated and need teacher assistance just to get started.
I agree – often I find it is a sense of cautiousness about their own perceived lack of ability.
I’ve found that modelling is essential with my students from this generation. They are not big risk-takers.
I agree with all comments. However, I find that if you can create trust between the students they will open up and become more adventurous during discussion or questioning. It is that fear most of us have of being judged.
I can see students who are always waiting for direction from the teacher. However I am also seeing students who can take a class plan and work through it independently. There is a change happening.
Yes, it’s good to see evidence of this in the classroom. Even better, when it encourages other students to contribute and work independently as well
To be able to teach flexibly students do need to be able to self direct their learning and become responsible for there learning. I am also seeing students able to work through a class plan.
I agree with the change Julie-Anne. It is up to the teacher to provide engaging learning material and meet the student on this level.
In order to encourage life long learning, I prefer to develop “Growth mindset characteristics” in my classroom. It is the best way to walk with students when they come across challenges and I find my teachable moments for individual groups. It’s the best way for learners to embrace failure as a learning opportunity. I find the unconditional positive regards in the Self-Esteem Movement is “empty praise”. Sooner or later, students give up when the “reward ” is not as they expected. Such students depend on external validation and tend to stay in their comfort zone.
Dorothy I agree the students learning is a journey we share with them. We cannot make them learn just like we can’t give them self esteem.
I see the over-exposure to external validation as coming from the ubiquitous devices glued to nearly every young person’s hand as much as their parents. Games and apps, just like the pokies in clubs across Australia, constantly reward and stimulate whilst gathering profit for the developers and their backers. This constant exposure leads young people to develop a fragile sense of self-worth and a reluctance to risk failure.
Matthew, I agree with your comment. There’s almost nothing we do anymore that doesn’t involve some form of external validation, and I’m sure we’re all just a bit conned in by that. Even good old Spider Solitaire (how much skill does that take?) gives the player levels to work towards and a record of their “achievements”. It’s no wonder this has spilled over into the classroom – why do something if no-one’s going to notice?
I agree with your comment Matthew. I see nothing wrong with accountability when it is realistic, reasonable and comes from a loving mind-set.
I’m surprised by the fixed mindset being competitive. I always assumed a bit of competitiveness was a sign of wanting to grow and be better but I can see that it’s a way of getting self validation that you are already good so there is no need to try harder. Very interesting.
Interesting topic and I can clearly see the difference. Being a trade teacher, I did assume it was more about what takes place in the workplace v’s at the RTO!
Reading though everyone’s comments has definitely helped as has the session by Michael.
In my world their is always room for growth and learning, I do my absolute best to demonstrate a path of long life learning to my students! Its vital within my industry.
I believe that self confidence give students that resilience to bounce back when faced with obstacles. These are the students who know failures are part of learning. It is however hard for those who are growing up with constant praises that they can do anything. I see some of my students having a breakdown over low mark because of the high expectations they have set on themselves.
We regularly have students watch video stories showing a growth mindset and fixed mindset. The students can identify both scenarios and use the language in the classroom and in discussions. Unfortunately not all students rise above apathy and dependence. At school assemblies we ask those receiving rewards “What did you do to help you get to where you are today eg: Best in Show – riding, wool; best athlete – run/swim/sporting team. We’re looking for the stories of effort, failure is a learning opportunity etc. If their peers can communicate their growth mindset, we hope others can use that learning.… Read more »
This is great – having the “winners” share their journey with their peers.
Many of us have the idea of that winners are born that way. To have students at that elite level share their experience of challenges, effort and failure is a lesson in itself. Fantastic!
I see unintended results of the self-esteem movement in students in post-schools environments where there are some students (not all) that require constant encouragement and close supervision in order to complete learning tasks. They value external validation and do not always seem internally motivated to engage with the learning materials or course. There is also a considerable variation that I see that appears to be associated with the age, experiences etc.
I agree Georgie.
I totally agree too Georgie
In the classroom environment a student’s self-esteem has a significant impact on almost everything they do, how they enter the classroom,how they engage with ineractive activities, deal with social challenges, and interact with others in the classroom . Self-esteem also can have a marked effects on academic performance how they accept feedback, how they accept classroom guidance and assistance required. Low self-esteem can lessen a student’s desire to learn, their ability to focus, and willingness to take risks.
I agree Fiona, low self-esteem will often be a factor when you are trying to understand why a student is less engaged or seems unmotivated.
I agree Fiona. I am amazed that our society has created a movement that has created results opposite to the intended result.
Fiona, I agree that low self esteem in students can indeed have a detrimental effect on their school life as well as their personal life.
I agree Fiona . Students with low self-esteem need extra effort to build up their self – confidence before they could actively engage in classroom activities.
In the post-school environment, I can clearly see the difference in the mindsets of the students in my class. I have older students who have a fixed-mindset too, likely due to disadvantage and past experiences. The ones who have a growth mindset are ‘up for the challenge’ and are a lot more willing to engage in new tasks and learning. I have a quiet giggle to myself when a student is astounded when I confirm that they will actually need to participate and complete assessments to be able to obtain their qualifications, that being enrolled is not enough for them… Read more »
I agree. It is always interesting to see the way that different students approach learning and how much effort they perceive is necessary to achieve the outcomes.
I had a giggle reading your post! I love seeing the way students approach tasks and activities so differently.
I have an issue with a few students where I need to constantly encourage them to complete learning tasks. They are unable to take initiative and be responsible for their own learning without my constant encouragement. I am trying to foster a growth mindset by encouraging all my students to undertake self assessment and relfection of their tasks to help them take more responsibility for their own learning.
Jessica, self assessment is an excellent guiding tool. A scaffold for the structure of the project and milestones with dates might assist too. Seems that self motivation needs an internal motivator – each kid seems to have a different thing that motives them hidden under their need for extrinsic reward.
I find it difficult too – especially getting the balance between using praise early on to develop confidence but not over-using it so when it is faded out the students don’t feel bereft.
Jessica, some students need extra LOVE to facilitate their learning .
“LOVE ” spells as T-I-M-E. So, the few students in your class need not only constant encouragement but also constant love and care from their trusted teachers and friends.
I see pleasing results when I encourage my students, as opposed to focusing on their weaknesses and negative comments during a lesson.
yes i definitely see more positive results when encouraging my students to complete task duringa lesson. My students need that encouragement to do their work or participate in discussions. They need a lot of prompting as well.
Yes I can see the same effect in my students too, why focus on weaknesses when the students are aware of them anyway. Celebrate their efforts to be involved in the class, make them feel valuable.
I too, obtain a positive result when I encourage my students. This fosters an inclusive environment and students are more receptive to feedback and are willing to actively participate.
This session, and all the comments, have really helped me to understand the differences in the students in my class. Although I definitely see a massive increase in fixed-mindset students post schooling. I suppose the growth mindset people are being recognised and getting the jobs (or progressing to higher level study) and the rest are in beginner certificate courses, and not by choice either – they don’t really want to be there.
Yes, it’s definitely a reflection on their attitude / mid set. the willingness to be engaged in a job role or further study is evidence of this
Interestingly, because I largely teach older students (migrants and refugees), I see in them a mostly determined, internal-validation mindset. They work hard, they try to master new things even when they appear overwhelmingly difficult, and they accept criticism well. This in comparison to my peers – I’m in my 30s – where I know many who cannot handle workplace failures or criticisms and are consumed by the idea of their public image. I really enjoyed hearing about the difference between the Fixed and Growth Mindsets and identifying where I thought my strengths and weaknesses were.
definitely an eye opener thinking of my own motivation/mindset (in my 50’s) vs the majority of students I have in High School/early school leavers. They don’t seem to think that they have to “try” – they come along, do a few activities and that’s it. They know they will all get school certificates without much effort. There is very little to differentiate between them – I feel for employers.
The need to have students be responsible for their own learning directions is difficult depending on their confidence and resilience to understand making a mistake is part of learning and not a failure. Students need to be able to give and take constructive feedback and see it as a positive challenge.
I agree confidence and resilience are essential in all areas of learning
I agree with this. I am encouraging my students to assess their own work as well as their peers. Students need to be taught how to be critical of their work and others in a constructive manner. Without the ability to do so they will never take responsibility for their own learning and will be constantly dependent on that validation.
True – I teach adults and it’s important to give them power, control and an understanding that they are responsible for their development – the teacher and the learning resources are resources they use to get where they want to go.
I too, agree with this statement. It is important that student confidence and resilence are key factors necessary within a learning environment.
I can relate to the self-Esteem movement in my student, and this presentation has confirmed what i have noticed and have been dealing with throughout my teaching career. although this does not reflect onto all students but surely we can notice the fixed mindset vs the growth mindset, it is imperative to be able to understand this notion (learner and non learner) and act accordingly keeping in mind the student welfare . giving constructive feedback to the student is very important to their learning, unconditional positive feedback is a false statement that can do more harm then good as there… Read more »
I can see now have the fixed vs growth mindset is reflected in the students I teach. The idea that they can grow with ‘intentional effort’ seems a foreign concept to some and requires extra effort on my part to ensure assessments are completed!
yes, agreed – it is all so much extra work to get satisfactory effort from them. I feel that everything I send back is just knocking them further down. It is hard to find that balance.
I see this in my students and it is perfectly explained. The reason of self direction and motivation is perfectly categorized by the two mind set Characteristics Fixed and Growth. I now understand how this movement has effected the behavior of this generation. I am extremely curious about narrowing this gap and help me to become a better teacher
I totally agree with you Mario, I do believe that our student who come from a non speaking English background and different culture have a different upbringing and a different mindset however it is up to us teachers to find who is a learner and a non learner as this is very important to accommodate the style of teaching and delivery thus accomplishing the task required from us as teachers, it is not an easy job but i am sure we can do it.
I agree I really hope we can narrow the gap. We know what went wrong but how do we fix it?
I teach in hospaitality sector, commercial cookery. I have different students from different backgrounds and walks of life. I can see within a day of first meeting these students where they sit in regards to the effort they will put in. When they receive feedback that is not what they want to hear they become frustrated and I get the but why? This is with prac classes. Then there is the theory side. I had students ask me for the answers and to why we cant do the workbooks together. I said that a bit of research/reading and learning is… Read more »
I teach in the tourism and hospitality sector teaching patisserie, I do cohort of students of different age groups, and the difference of receiving constructive feedback is taken so very differently , the students who have the fixed mind set take it with such disbelief that that did not get the positive feedback such as “well done” even though they may served a raw product, but my reflection on this topic is I have learnt that the fixed generation can be changed and begin to understand the positive impact that helps them learn better
I agree! I also feel the fixed mindset students, eventually come around due to the theory behind the skills, it takes a while and when it happens – Its almost magical!
I have two distinct groups of students: those that work independently with little direction and those that need a lot of direction. Those that need guidance, tend not to take a risk, require affirmation at each stage or just want to know what the correct answer is (rather than be guided towards coming to the answer on their own). They take criticism personally and lose motivation quickly. Those that are independent learners tend to have specific questions and don’t waste time; they can be critical of the information presented (and even challenge the information). I think some of the characteristics… Read more »
I teach Patisserie and I see this behaviour a lot. The students of today do not want to be told that the product is not up to the required standard. They want answers and everything on a plate. I am happy that this behaviour stems from this movement and i am so keen to see the methods to narrow this gap. Especially when you are teaching skills and a discipline it is vital to bridge this gap
I see positive outcomes when I encourage my students, rather than trying to focus on their negative behaviours and comments during a lesson.
Giving the students a positive outcomes is good to their self esteem, however giving them a positive outcomes with constrictive feedback such as ideas something a little more just to get them thinking that they have done very well but they can do better, its just an idea that i follow during my class especially in the patisserie section as there is more then one way to do a task.
I think one thing that really impacts me in this session is how we can bridge the GAP between Gen Y in our teaching deliver
Some students need to be spoon fed information and how to do things where as other students seem able to persist and investigate when they hit a road block.
Absolutely correct. Some time ago the students who loved to be pushed and wanted to investigate beyond the basics(growth mindset) outnumbered the fixed mindset students. Bridging the gap is what will bring about a change and prepare our students for world
Hoping that intervention of bridging the gap can also be implemented through schools and in the home environment.
As a teacher, I can see an improvement in their engagement when given praise and encouragement – work on developing their self esteem skills. Praising students provides motivation and continuation in their learning journey.
Similar, I find students respond well to encouragement that they are on the right path.
positive feedback definitely motivates better productivity and also fosters better learning, but I do also notice some feedback needs to be given when we see that a student has some hidden potential that could be tapped into
I guess the message to pick from this is constant praise doesn’t help the students identify where they need to focus their efforts so they can improve. It’s hard to undo as I’ve been “trained” to praise and never let someone feel bad about what they have done but I’m actually not helping them learn if I don’t point out where there is room for improvement.
Definitely. I also work hard to build rapport with the students at the beginning of our time together so that they develop a sense of belonging with the group.
I have also found that alot of students suffer from Identiy crisis – as they really do not know how they should accept and behave when they receive encouragement in the adult envirnoment as they are use to being told what is acceptable in school environment.
I think that students are all different and it is clear which have a fixed and those that have a growth mindset. We will need to focus on moving them all towards having an open growth mindset at least while they are learning to prepare them for their futures.
I find the high school classes to be a mix of both fixed and growth mindsets. But I have noticed that all the students need external feedback constantly and individually. They don’t want to be praised as a whole class, but one by one. If this praise is not offered voluntarily the students will persist until they receive an individual feedback.
I agree there is a mix and a variety of levels in between too.
I do quite notice this in my patisserie classes, even though we give a thorough group feedback they would have better fulfillment with an individual feedback, I have learnt better that dedicating 5 minutes per student alleviates this issue and keeps the cohort happy
Most of my students have low self esteem and learning difficulties.
Donna I have had students with these issues…I found what made them tick and a little bit of positive feedbackwhen they had made an effort they grew and enjoyed what they were doing! Such a great thing to see!!!
A lot of my students are from very disadvantaged backgrounds, and have low self esteem too. I work hard at building rapport and encouraging participation so that the students feel a sense of belonging. This often helps when we get to the difficult bits where I have to provide constructive criticism and stretch them a little bit.
We have classes across all age groups and the younger generations tend to be the first to ask what is the minimum I have to do to pass – they are not interested in the learning journey but in a quick outcome with as little input as possible. When the students are engaged they do need constant reassurance that they are doing an activity correctly this can be very draining if you have a large class group that all require constant praise
I totally agree Wendy. It is my younger students who are consistently late or tardy, who don’t show up, or leave early, and who don’t try as hard. It is so discouraging and takes a lot of effort and investment from me to get them working as hard as their older student peers.
The majority of my learners fall into the fixed mindset. They avoid risks and challenges and seek external validation and guidance to ensure they are correct before giving things a go. They give up easily, set the benchmark low and are quick to blame when the going gets tough.
I cringe when i hear uni students say “P’s mean degrees”! This to me is laziness not a self-esteem issue. Just doing what you need to do to pass rather than giving it your best effort.
I’m lucky that my cohort of students attend their ESL classes because they believe it will truly help with their everyday life in Australia no matter how difficult the class may seem to them. Do they seem to lack confidence? Yes at times they do.
I wonder if their “near enough is good enough” attitude is a result of the disposable society we live in today – things change so fast – why invest time and effort when it will all change tomorrow? Also, I don’t think that confidence and self esteem are the same thing.
Hi Alanna, I teach ESL too. Do you find you experience different mindsets across your different ages? Like me I’m guessing you have both migrants and refugees which means our dynamic is different to your regular Aussie students, and we don’t hear much which is targetted to our specific cohorts in ESL.
With the introduction to new work, questions start – what do I need to pass? how many tries can I have? where would I find the answers? Students want to do as little as possible to complete the work. Not really interested in the learning just the end result – PASS, and what is the easiest way to do achieve that. Any submission means work is correct and achieved.
I agree we have the same in our area – the most important questions are around how much work do I have to do – it seems that the students wont take responsibility for their education and anything they hand in must be correct because they handed it in and find it hard to accept that they may need to resubmit.
As a teacher I see a resubmit as a learning opportunity for the student. Students seem to see it as a failure.
Students ask for the marking guide for the assessments and choose the amount of effort required based on the predicted outcomes. IE Minimal effort to pass. The trend in vocational education is “Competent or Not Yet Competent” there is no failure status that actually provides value to the student that they are not coping with the work, just a false sense of “I’m almost there…”
I find there are always a mixture in the class. Those who just want to do a minimum to pass, but there are always those few who want to excel, stretch and have a true growth experience. I enjoy encouraging people, and I admit I find a fixed mindset very hard to deal with as this is not my mindset.
Learning for me is a lifelong journey.
We must be careful with the praise we give students, too much can be detrimental to their progress. Its best to encourage them to work harder to find the answer themselves. A bit of gentle prompting can be helpful. .
It is very hard to balance “praise” and “critical response”. The ultimate failure is the creation of a set language for reporting that removes “negative” terms such as “fail”, “did not”. Only providing positive reflection does not provide students with an accurate description of activity or success in a task.
It is very difficult to find that balance between praise – positive and a what can be perceived as criticism in a feedback response. With some students I have found that pointing out errors in activities is perceived as a personal attack rather than being accepted as a learning opportunity.
Rhonda, so true. I see that with my students. I also see that with my daughter!
Many students expect the answers to be given them. Some ask for assistance before even attempting to work out the answer. This could be because of low self esteem,
Sometimes it’s important to scaffold success before a student is confident enough to attempt things beyond their perceived reach
yes it can also be linked to the need to preserve their ego, rahter not answer at all then face the shame of getting it wrong infront of peers.
Many students have low self esteem. Many are from low economic communities and are not always able to buy their text books. I will often give a copy of the text book to the student or enable them to have the library hold the books for them. I feel that if, as a teacher, I can show interest in the student and encourage them to gain further education, they either enrol in other courses or email me telling me of their intended course. Sometimes they email to say they have found employment. This feedback from students makes me feel that… Read more »
Hi Maureen, yes no matter which mindset they may be, us as teachers working flexibly, and responding to individual student needs can have amazing results.
Some students do not appear to have self esteem in the classroom. They do however, have a strong sense of “I’m a leader and my friends will follow”. External validation from their teachers is not desired but want their friends to know ‘they are important’ to others.
The expectation that they are all leaders, avoids the situation where they are not the leader. Even leaders should know when to follow.